Quill ([info]quill18) wrote,
@ 2007-09-18 13:51:00
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The next couple of days in the media are going to be dominated by the story of the University of Florida student who was tazered at a Q and A with Senator John Kerry.

I am a strong freedom of speech advocate.

I am strongly opposed to the escalating powers of the "Police State".

THIS guy, though, was just a complete fucktard.

I highly suggest you watch one of the many YouTube videos of the incident:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CheY0jYXJjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE&NR=1

For me, this was enough to determine:

1) He was trying to cause a scene.
2) He was asked to leave and did not. When police tried to escort him away, he broke away and rushed towards the senator.
3) Police took hold of him and herded him towards the exit.
4) He continued to struggle and started to break away again.
5) Police brought him to the ground and tried to restrain him and handcuff him.
6) He continued to struggle and turned on to his back, flailing around and preventing the police from cuffing him.

At this point the police have to options:
a) Employ greater physical force to restrain him, using pressure points, joint locks, and other strong-arm techniques.
b) Use a low-powered tazer strike to stun him for a few seconds.

Using raw physical force - even with 4-6 officers trying to restrain - is extremely risky to the officers and the person being restrained. It takes very little pressure in the wrong place for a wrist to snap while cuffs are being applied, and it's impossible to tell if someone has a small knife or even a needle hidden on their body to use as a weapon ---- or if they'll decide to grab an officer's gun.

As for the tazer, you can tell it was low-powered because the guy continued to shout through it, instead of being outright knocked senseless for a minute or two.

---

If the videos are not enough to convince you that the police acted in a fairly reasonable manner, read one of the eyewitness accounts of the event:

"I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.

The forum was going to be over at 2 pm, and Kerry spoke for so long that the Q and A portion had to be shortened. He only got through about 7 of the 50 people who were waiting to ask questions. While the final question was being read, some douchebag ran down the aisle, grabbed the mic from the other side of the room, interrupted the kid who was talking, and started yelling at Kerry, demanding that his questions be heard. He started ranting about how Kerry talks in circles or something, and everyone was getting annoyed. The cops are all over him in no time and try to escort him out, but he starts yelling and resisting. Kerry insists that they let him stay and even agrees to answer his question.

After the interrupted guy's question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene."


Continued here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/10649/5334


As seen on slashdot.org:


1. He wasn't asking questions. He was making rhetorical statements. He was preaching. He was robbing other people of the chance to actually ask Kerry questions. What is the punishment for that? Simple, they take the mic away from you and give it to someone with something constructive to say. No taser involved.

2. When security (and others) politely asked him to yield the mic, he acted impolitely and continued to monopolize the event. What is the punishment for that? Simple, they escort him away from the venue. Still no taser involved. But look who made the choice to go from 1 to 2 - it's him. OK, he made his stupid little rhetorical statements. If he had just sat his privileged little ass down, that would be the end of it. But no, **he choose** to escalate from 1 to 2.

3. When security took him by the arm and gently began to escort him from the venue, he began pitching an absolute hissy fit. ok, now we're into interesting territory. You are not allowed to shout fire in a crowded theater, because that insights panic. And you are not allowed be hysterical in an auditorium for the same reason. He was shouting and waving his arms and running around the auditorium. That is completely out of line. He does not have the right to do that. What is the punishment? Simple, the police are going to restrain him for everyone's safety and forcibly remove him. Still no taser involved. And once again, it was his choice to go to step 3. When the police put their hands on him, he could have walked out of the venue and that would be the end of it. But no, he choose to escalate to 3.

4. The police get him to the back of the auditorium and the whole thing is about 10 seconds from being over and then einstein breaks free from the police and tries to run back down the isle. I'm sorry, but at that point, the consequences of all of his actions have reached the level where a taser is appropriate. The police had a duty to subdue and restrain this asshat and get him outside.





(Post a new comment)


[info]kagomeshuko
2007-09-18 07:36 pm UTC (link)
You know, I completely agree with you. That guy is an idiot! Ugh. . .those YouTube comments from people are just pathetic. . .how can they defend him?

(Reply to this)


[info]klantyre
2007-09-19 07:29 am UTC (link)
Man-- I read the story on the news, and they totally made it sound like the guy was reasonable and the police were at fault! Thank goodness for the video!!

(Reply to this)


[info]klantyre
2007-09-19 07:35 am UTC (link)
OK, now I've watched the video in addition to reading the witness-statements, and I've changed my opinion a little. There were like 10 officers on him and they had him on the floor, so there was really no need to taser him...officers are just giant bags of testosterone, hehe! Plus I think he was actually about to let Kerry answer the question when they grabbed him, hehe! They should have waited to see if he'd actually shut up after the three questions were asked! They were just intimidated/threatened by the guy and jumped the gun, I think!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]klantyre
2007-09-19 07:35 am UTC (link)
Pun intended, hehe! OK, now I'm shutting up! *grin*

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]quill18
2007-09-19 01:38 pm UTC (link)
They had him on the ground and tried - unsuccessfully - for a full minute to cuff him. Again, as per my post, I submit that there were only two options at this point:

a) manhandle him harder to try to get him cuffed, potentially injuring him while also escalating the physical struggle - which also puts the officers at continued risk

b) stun him with the tazer

They warned him twice and then went for option b. He had plenty of opportunity to stop fighting the cops and elected not to.

Yes, I agree that most cops are testosterone authority-whores...but if they chose not to use the tazer and just manipulated his arm into the handcuffs while he fought back, chances are good that his arm could have been fractured. And then we'd hear even MORE about this on the news.

---

Also, there weren't 10 cops. There were 6 -- and only 4 were actually "on" him. It's not physically possible to have that many people wrestle with one person.

Let me tell you - I'm an out of shape wimp, but if you took four of your strongest friends I bet even *I* could flail around enough to prevent them from tying me down unless they used enough force to hurt me.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]klantyre
2007-09-20 10:05 am UTC (link)
Oh you people who argue semantics, hehe! I said LIKE 10 guys, not there WERE 10 guys! Pthththt!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]quill18
2007-09-20 01:14 pm UTC (link)
Nah, if I were to argue semantics, then I would say that it's not semantics that I'm arguing over.

---

Do you believe it's acceptable to introduce hyberbole into a story that could ignite serious civil-rights discussion for the next little while?

I mean -- that's really 100% what this story will already revolve around. People on one side of the argument are going to say that the fascist cops beat the crap out of a guy who was just trying to exercise Freedom of Speech.

The other side is going to say that this guy was trying to be as disruptive as possible and had no intention of actually asking valid questions. That he was looking for a fight with the cops (who were otherwise acting in a perfectly reasonable manner) and that he got exactly what he deserved.

The truth, of course, lies in the middle -- but to get there, we need to strip hyperbole and emotion from our analysis of the situation.

If you can view the actual video and mentally round-up the number of cops to 10, it shows a powerful emotional response to the scene.

Emotional response is GOOD -- it's what makes us human. But when it clouds and colours the truth of a situation, it ultimately does more harm to our efforts to grow as a society.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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